The Ascension

jwmcmac said -
It seems to me JRoberts and Michael_Legna that you two are saying the same things but leaving out the 'Person' part of the Incarnate two-natures in One Divine Person of CHRIST of whom we humans are an image and likeness.

You have to remember that we are discussing Mysteries of Faith.

You know . . . Three Divine Persons in One GOD . . . and . . .

CHRIST has two natures in HIS One Divine Incarnate Person, the Second Divine Person of the BLESSED TRINITY.

Unity of Person does not die even with dualism of natures . . . the Human and Divine natures found in CHRIST . . . nor with dualism of Body and Soul which forms our one Human nature.

CHRIST did not become like us so much as we were created to be Like HIM.

I agree with all this but I do not think that it means the body and the soul or that Christ dual nature (being fully man and fully God) are not at points separated from each other for a time.

jwmcmac said -
The Incarnate CHRIST is HE of WHOM we are the image and likeness. HE died the first death, just as we do . . . CHRIST dying unjustly, giving up HIS Divine and Human Life in Sacrifice for us. We dying as a Justice carried out . . . it being a part of the finite nature of our body to die . . . we having chosen ourselves over GOD's Life of Sanctifying Grace in the rejection of GOD which was Adam's Original Sin.

I don't think it is correct to say Jesus divine nature died on the cross. I am aware of no statement in the Church's doctrine that says this. I also don't believe the soul dies at the time of our mortal death either. We know only God can kill the soul (Matt 10:28) so using your analogy (as I understand it) just as Christ's divine nature survived the cross, so too our soul survives our bodies death. Otherwise how do you explain the Church Triumphant?

jwmcmac said -
That is . . . CHRIST's Body and our Body was/are separated from HIS/our Soul for a time . . . CHRIST for three short days . . . we until Judgement day . . . and our soul awaits that day in a state of separation of body and soul called death . . . or asleep in the LORD . . . if we are Happily United with the LORD while awaiting that day.

But just as our souls are present with the Lord while being absent from the body, so too Jesus divine nature did not die or sleep, as the body does.

jwmcmac said -
Even though the first death is a separation of body and soul . . . still our Person does not ever die.

Yes, our person is fully contained in our soul, so that nature of ours survives.

jwmcmac said -
I believe the old Baltimore Catechism put it this way . . . that our body dies but our soul is eternal.

This definitely speaks to me as their being a very specific difference in their two natures.

jwmcmac said -
However, our Body, Mind and Soul are ultimately inseparable in that on judgement day our soul will be reunited with our body, which body will then be transformed either into a Glorified Body, Like CHRIST's, or transformed into a reprobate body, like Lucifer's.

We yes once they are reunited they are inseparable, but until then they certainly are separable.

jwmcmac said -
Off the subject:

If we die the first death in union with CHRIST, it is called 'asleep in the LORD'.

It is that second death we need to worry about . . . which is Eternal Body and Soul separation from GOD the Trinity for all Eternity, because we never were formed into CHRIST nor HE in us.

Yes the body sleeps (or is dead) but as the verse you refer to implies, the soul does not sleep, it is separated from the body and is present with the Lord. (2 Cor 5:8) We know only God can kill the soul, as I showed above.

jwmcmac said -
The Sacramental Life of the Church, well Lived in penitent Holiness, is the Normal way of finding Unity with the Incarnate and now Glorified and Risen Bodily CHRIST. I Believe this. I don't expect all here to believe this. Just please don't arbitrarily negate the importance of the Flesh, though it is certainly the SPIRIT WHO gives Eternal Life to both the body and to the Soul.

I wasn't intending to negate the importance of the flesh, I don't even think cremation does that. I am fully confident in God's ability to resurrect the body regardless of how it is treated after death. I also expect that body to have to change, to be glorified before it is reunited with the soul, and I don't think this change in anyway negates the importance of the flesh.