Christ removes all barriers to catholicity of His church through faith

JeffLogan's picture

Thinking about Christ and how He breaks down all barriers and spoils all principalities and powers which prevent true universality, true catholicity, of His body, the church...

Has anyone ever considered that a living faith is not achieved by adding our works to our faith but rather, that faith is a gift from God which being quickened by the Holy Spirit produces obedience (good works)? (The keyword here is "quickened". It would serve you well to consult your Strong's Concordance.)

Think about this verse and tell me what it means:

    And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. -Acts 5:32 (KJV)

But first, before you answer, tell me what this means to demonstrate your wisdom:

    "Love means never having to say you're sorry." (Love Story, The movie.)

Does it mean...

    1) Love does nothing to warrant an apology

    2) Love takes no account of injury

    3) Other (explain)

Now answer the verse in question:

    And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. -Acts 5:32 (KJV)

Does it mean...

    1) God only gives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him

    2) God gives His Holy Spirit to men so they might obey Him

    3) Other (explain)

This is a discovery exercise and not a theological debate. Opinions are welcomed but scriptural support would be even better. Be sure to interpret your scriptures so we can understand how you are using them. Commentaries may be insightful but a paraphrase in your own words would be appreciated and would demonstrate you understand your subject matter.

De Maria's picture

re: Christ removes all barriers to catholicity of His church thr

Hi Jeff,

You said:
This is a discovery exercise

What is a "discovery exercise"?

You also said:
and not a theological debate.

Great. I will respond in the spirit of the exercise once I understand what we are discovering.

In the meantime, please don't interpret a difference of opinion as a debate. A difference of opinion can also be a means of learning how we each understand the subject at hand.

Thinking about Christ and how He breaks down all barriers and spoils all principalities and powers which prevent true universality, true catholicity, of His body, the church...

I think that is a false premise. You said:
Opinions are welcomed but scriptural support would be even better.

I would ask that you provide the Scripture which supports your opinion that Christ breaks down all barriers. Because Scripture says:
Luke 12 50But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

And history bears witness that this is a true statement.

So, in the spirit of your intent for this discovery exercise, please provide the support for your opinion.

Has anyone ever considered that a living faith is not achieved by adding our works to our faith but rather, that faith is a gift from God which being quickened by the Holy Spirit produces obedience (good works)?

Yes. I believe that a living faith produces saving faith by producing good works. This is confirmed in Scripture:
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Therefore faith needs works to become a saving faith.
James 2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Therefore the evidence of a living faith is works which justify:
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

(The keyword here is "quickened". It would serve you well to consult your Strong's Concordance.)

quickened-brought to life. Works do bring faith to life.
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Think about this verse and tell me what it means:

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. -Acts 5:32 (KJV)

But first, before you answer, tell me what this means to demonstrate your wisdom:

"Love means never having to say you're sorry." (Love Story, The movie.)

Does it mean...

1) Love does nothing to warrant an apology

2) Love takes no account of injury

3) Other (explain)

Now answer the verse in question:

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. -Acts 5:32 (KJV)

Does it mean...

1) God only gives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him

2) God gives His Holy Spirit to men so they might obey Him

3) Other (explain)

3) Other-God gives the Holy Spirit to all men. But this verse is talking about those men who ACCEPT the gift. Just as I can give someone a gift which I like, they may look at it with disdain and promptly return. Therefore, those who disobey God in so doing, reject His Gift, the Holy Spirit.

This is a discovery exercise and not a theological debate. Opinions are welcomed but scriptural support would be even better. Be sure to interpret your scriptures so we can understand how you are using them. Commentaries may be insightful but a paraphrase in your own words would be appreciated and would demonstrate you understand your subject matter.

I hope I've answered to your satisfaction.

Sincerely,

De Maria




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