Submitted by michael_legna on Mon, 2007-06-18 07:09.
pilgrim said -
This report from 2004 would indicate this 'problem' is not an isolated case in the Province of Quebec. The following report was commissioned by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
That is hard to say since we have not even identified what problem it is that Benoit is referring to. Yes, the Catholic Church has some members in it who have a problem with sin. But then so do all Churches. Yes the Catholic Church has within its leadership men who have problems with temptation and sin. But then so do all Churches, including the first Church as otherwise Paul would not have had to rebuke Peter for his sin, and Paul himself would not have referred to the thorn in his own side which he fought with constantly. But when you get past the hype of the press and the attacks of Protestant apologists you find that the percentage of Catholic Priest who have the problem you bring up is no greater than the same issue in mainline Protestant denominations (it is just not covered as extensively by the Protestant biased press in America) and it is less than the problem as it exists in the general population.
pilgrim said -
Since this report is commissioned by the Conference of Catholic Bishops, it can hardly be classed as Protestant, Catholic Bashing. Someplace in the report it claims over 4200 priests have had accusations made against them, which seems a staggering number no matter how you would like to 'spin' it.
I agree and the numbers are accepted as accurate by the other independent investigations which occured. I disagree that they are a staggering numbers as there are far more Protestant clergy in America who have had these problems laid at their feet than there are Catholic Priests.
This is based simply on the fact that Catholics in America only represent 30% of the population and the percentage of clergy who yield to this sin are the same across denominational lines. What your excerpt didn't show is that as large as these numbers are they still only represent about 4% of the population of Catholic Priests, which is a percentage right in line with the studies done on Protestant clergy and a couple of percentage points below the general population.
Here are a couple of excerpts to put those numbers in perspective
(you can read the whole article at the following website)
"Ms. Demarest's numbers conform with estimates by Thomas Plante, a California psychologist at Santa Clara University who treats priests who have molested minors. "The best data we have is that approximately 5 percent of priests have a predilection toward minors," he declared. "That seems consistent with other clergy who are not priests (such as Protestant ministers or rabbis)." Moreover, Plante cites research suggesting that among the general population, 8 percent feel sexually attracted to children – a higher percentage than among priests or other clergy. Such numbers, or course, reflect those who feel sexually drawn to contact with kids, rather than indicating the percentage who actually act upon this inclination.
The Washington Post, an establishment liberal journal with no reason to whitewash the church, approvingly cites Gary Schoener, a psychologist in Minneapolis whose Walk-In Counseling Center has consulted with more than 1,000 victims of sexual abuse by clergy. He also affirms that the percentage of abusers among Catholic priests is no higher than among Protestant ministers."
Now any abuse is a terrible thing and numbers do not excuse anyone of the personal sin or do anything to help the victim. But they do show the that problem is not with the Catholic Church but with the individual themselves and that this problems exists everywhere.
The real issue of this scandal is not that these men had personal sins to their account, it is the cover up done by some of the Bishops and that has been very strictly disciplined by the Church and guidelines are in place to prevent this from happening again.
Still the issue is not even one that I think Benoit is referring to, so I am not sure why you brought it up in this thread.
Look at percentages not numbers and the beam in thy own eye.
pilgrim said -
This report from 2004 would indicate this 'problem' is not an isolated case in the Province of Quebec. The following report was commissioned by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
That is hard to say since we have not even identified what problem it is that Benoit is referring to. Yes, the Catholic Church has some members in it who have a problem with sin. But then so do all Churches. Yes the Catholic Church has within its leadership men who have problems with temptation and sin. But then so do all Churches, including the first Church as otherwise Paul would not have had to rebuke Peter for his sin, and Paul himself would not have referred to the thorn in his own side which he fought with constantly. But when you get past the hype of the press and the attacks of Protestant apologists you find that the percentage of Catholic Priest who have the problem you bring up is no greater than the same issue in mainline Protestant denominations (it is just not covered as extensively by the Protestant biased press in America) and it is less than the problem as it exists in the general population.
pilgrim said -
Since this report is commissioned by the Conference of Catholic Bishops, it can hardly be classed as Protestant, Catholic Bashing. Someplace in the report it claims over 4200 priests have had accusations made against them, which seems a staggering number no matter how you would like to 'spin' it.
I agree and the numbers are accepted as accurate by the other independent investigations which occured. I disagree that they are a staggering numbers as there are far more Protestant clergy in America who have had these problems laid at their feet than there are Catholic Priests.
This is based simply on the fact that Catholics in America only represent 30% of the population and the percentage of clergy who yield to this sin are the same across denominational lines. What your excerpt didn't show is that as large as these numbers are they still only represent about 4% of the population of Catholic Priests, which is a percentage right in line with the studies done on Protestant clergy and a couple of percentage points below the general population.
Here are a couple of excerpts to put those numbers in perspective
(you can read the whole article at the following website)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26955
"Ms. Demarest's numbers conform with estimates by Thomas Plante, a California psychologist at Santa Clara University who treats priests who have molested minors. "The best data we have is that approximately 5 percent of priests have a predilection toward minors," he declared. "That seems consistent with other clergy who are not priests (such as Protestant ministers or rabbis)." Moreover, Plante cites research suggesting that among the general population, 8 percent feel sexually attracted to children – a higher percentage than among priests or other clergy. Such numbers, or course, reflect those who feel sexually drawn to contact with kids, rather than indicating the percentage who actually act upon this inclination.
The Washington Post, an establishment liberal journal with no reason to whitewash the church, approvingly cites Gary Schoener, a psychologist in Minneapolis whose Walk-In Counseling Center has consulted with more than 1,000 victims of sexual abuse by clergy. He also affirms that the percentage of abusers among Catholic priests is no higher than among Protestant ministers."
Now any abuse is a terrible thing and numbers do not excuse anyone of the personal sin or do anything to help the victim. But they do show the that problem is not with the Catholic Church but with the individual themselves and that this problems exists everywhere.
The real issue of this scandal is not that these men had personal sins to their account, it is the cover up done by some of the Bishops and that has been very strictly disciplined by the Church and guidelines are in place to prevent this from happening again.
Still the issue is not even one that I think Benoit is referring to, so I am not sure why you brought it up in this thread.