So...! What do we expect from our Pastor?

Mark Anthony's picture

Posted as a reply in the "Interactive Daily Devotional Journal" I thought it was a good topic for the General Forum, to see what you all think. Grace! Tony G. BDST & IDDJ Lead

Persons Comment: General concern about how a Pastor should have acted.

Impact: Questions? How much weight am I putting on my Pastor? I mean to say, is my faith based on him and his life? Am I getting the messenger confused with the message? Am I getting this wrong? Where have I learned it from? What have I learned from the Bible on this? What can I with a certain contentment believe about this topic?

My Reply:

The spirit and inthusiansm of a Pastor Ebbs and Flows. It's hard work with little reward at times. I know of many honest people who thought they were following God's will by becoming a Pastor only to fizzle out years later, sometimes 5, 10 or 15 years later.

I think for my experience, it's not good to place to much weight in a Pastor. I mean to some, following a charismatic figure is more important than what they believe in the bible. I've seen it go that way. This is bad because when the Leader is gone, as the Calvary Chapel Church Movement may soon find out, the people will likely fade as well. As much as I think Chuck Smith would like it otherwise, he has certainly been a faithful teacher, the nature of those who are camp followers, tend to leave once the main attraction is gone.

So much better to follow what has been carefully taught. I used to kind of spurn the creeds ignorantly and pridefully, thinking they were part of a failed old church tradition. It wasn't until I has humbled by God and searching to be re-anchored as a christian that I looked at church history as saw the good, the bad and the ugly.

I had to decide to use the good, loose the bad and realize the ugly.

There is much good in the churches history, trials, persecutions and false teachers helped to form three of our first church creeds. The Apostle's, The Nicean and Athanatius Creeds. These creeds in a simple format form the basic teachings of the gospel in a nutshell.

I tend to loose all the ultra-distinctive traditions that make the various denominations themselves. I tend to focus on the gospel and leave all other non-gospel items where they belong. They may be interesting and even useful, but they stand in line behind the gospel.

The ugly are those things that are counter to the gospel. Things like much of our Christian self-help methods, self based (centering) exercises. Mysticism in any form that turns the attention away from God and redirects it to self, in an endless witch hunt for sin. (If the enemy can keep your attention on your own sin, then he not only can keep you discouraged, but can keep you from the only person that can seperate you from your sin, Jesus!)

As a rule any teaching that places the emphasis on self, whether in a positive or negitive light is in it's essence a rudiment of "worldly elemental doctrine". This kind of teaching never looks beyond the physical. (Even though it uses the spiritual as an excuse).

Paul warns the Colossians of such things. His answer to these teachings was simple. "Set your mind on things above!"

The root correction to these false teachings is found in I Cor 2:2, "Determine to know nothing except Jesus and Him crucified"

Paul would say in Colossians three, "set you mind on things that are above, not on things that are on the earth", "seek those things above where Christ is seated"

Simple breakdown:

Seeking self fulfillment leads to being taken captive by every self-help-esteem teaching that comes through the publishing houses and television. They involve philosophy and socialogical traditions as old as time. They are called by Paul "the elemental spirits of the world, controlled by spiritual rulers and authorities (fallen angels).Col 3:8-23.

Seeking those things above move us forward in a fulfilling relationshiip with our savior. We are growing, maturing and being continually built up towards the goals of our Lord.

Where the self-esteem-help people keep us locked in a debilitating and ugly cycle of sin and failure on this muddy earth, the cross exalts us into a heavenly realm, where sin has been dealt with and we move freely on in maturity towards the Kingdom of God.

Maturity doesn't mean sinlessness as the self-help people have taught (that is a old eastern religious philosophy not associated with Christians teachings), but the ability to realize sin for what it is (a offense against God), and turn that weakness over to Jesus remembering the cross and God's love towards us to dispose of that sin by trusting in the work of His Son on the cross.

I guess the bottom line of this tyraid is: If you are seeking those things above and realize your Pastor is holding a office to teach and preach, of which he was called to by the Lord or His church (us!) then you can cut him some slack, he's human just like us. Praying silently for him is sometimes the most neglected thing we do for our Pastors. We may pray openly and sometimes to embarrass our Pastors, this is very wrong! But how scant are the honest and quiet prayers of those really concerned. We would find in heaven how many ship wrecks were averted by the prayers of a single humble soul.

Qaulifier... I am not a Pastor, but have worked closely with several, going through some pretty ugly stuff.

Micah 6:8

JeffLogan's picture

A reply to: The better question might be, "Is the Church under a

A reply to: The better question might be, "Is the Church under any O.T. law?
Submitted by Julabee Jones on Mon, 2009-10-12 12:22.

Julabee asks, "Is the Church under any O.T. law?

That question might best be answered this way...

Julabee writes, Jesus is the end of the law...."For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth". Romans 10:4.

Then how do you interpret this verse? "Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." 1 Peter 1:9 (KJV)

Could it be that you have misunderstood Romans 10:4? What if the verse simply means that righteousness comes not by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. Therefore, Christ fulfills the purpose of the law concerning righteousness. The law taught us to be righteous but we could not comply in our weakness. But faith in Christ yields the righteousness that the law demands. Thus, faith in Christ yields the righteousness which the law describes. Works do not produce righteousness.

Why do I think this is the true interpretation? Well, go back a few chapter to Romans 3 and we find this:

    20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:
    Romans 3:20-22 (KJV)

The exact same thought but stated a bit differently in Romans 10. Just look at the context of Romans 10:4

    1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
    Romans 10:1-4 (KJV)

Now look at the use of the word "end" in this verse. It should help you understand how the same word might be used in Romans 10:4.

    5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
    1 Tim 1:5 (KJV)

Don't think that God has no law to judge the wicked. The law still remains. But by God's grace we can be forgiven and no one is stoned to death for breaking it--at least no one dies for their sins until the final judgment.

There is one other interpretation that could also harmonize with scripture and the context of Romans 10. Christ is the end of the works of the law for righteousness. Romans 10 starts out talking about how the Jews went about to establish their own righteousness apart from faith. So Christ can also be the end of that vain attempt to attain to the righteousness of God by the works of the law. I favor the first interpretation because it implies this second interpretation as well. But trying to make this verse say that Christ abolished the law is not a faithful rendering. Christ said early on in His ministry that we were not to think that He came to destroy the law. He came to fulfill it. That is, He came to obey it perfectly. He came to redeem the human race by succeeding where the first Adam failed. All who believe in Him can be born again of Christ and live rather than perishing as children of Adam.

Now someone will say, "Oh, he's trying to put us back under the old law." Well, no! I cannot do that but you can by transgressing it. And if you think it no longer exists then chances are you will not be convicted when you break it. So it is you who choses to be under the law or not. Remember, "the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine..." 1 Tim 1:9-10 (KJV) Those who walk according to the flesh break the law but those who walk in the spirit do those things against which there is no law. (cf., Gal 5 and Romans 8:1 ff.)

There are two ways to put oneself under the law. You can break the law and come under its condemnation. Or, you can place yourself under its care by trying to keep it pefectly. But you must fail and have already failed in that you have already broken the law. But there is only one way to remove and keep oneself from under the law and that is by faith in Jesus Christ.

"Where two or three are gathered together in my name,
there am I in the midst of them." Viola! Church!
(Matt 18:20 (KJV))

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“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you."