1 Corinthians 3:15 -but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire

De Maria's picture

For Catholics the answer is Purgatory.

What is the answer for Protestants?

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

De Maria's picture

I have shown many verses on Purgatory.

#3. You acknowledgt the effect of purgatory and indulgences relates to the idea of the treasury of the saints: another doctrine that does not find support in scripture.
To conclude the treasury of the saints from Mk 12:43 is almost as violent to scripture as getting purgatory from the prison in Matt.

Do you read each verse in Scripture in isolation from all others?

For Purgatory, I showed the verse in 1 Peter, 2 Macc, Rev and Matt. There are many more. But the preponderance of the evidence doesn't seem to matter to you. You seem to take each verse in isolation from any other.

As for the treasury in heaven. It is also confirmed in Scripture else where:

Matthew 6:20
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

So now the treasury the poor widow gave represents your Roman Catholic concept of the treasury of the saints.,

It is the foundation for the Catholic concept of the treasury of the saints. The Scripture does not directly say so, but can you deny that a person of such great faith as this widow obviously was, is probably in heaven?

See how God’s Word is interpreted to line up to Roman Catholic doctrine??

You are taking the cart before the horse. Catholic doctrine is based upon God's Word.

In fact, it is you who seems to use a tactic of isolating each verse of Scripture in order to force Scripture to line up to your interpretation.

There is nothing in either the language or the immediate context of this passage that supports the assertion of a treasury of the saints,

There isn't? Then what is this treasury which Christ speaks of wherein a widow's penny is worth more than a rich man's gold?

and certainly nothing that places said alleged treasury under the control of Roman Catholic hierarchy.

Did you forget the keys which bind and loose or the power to remit and retain sin?

A penny is a penny and a widow is a wido, nothing more.

Give me this penny which is worth more than gold. Introduce me to this widow whose pennies are worth more than the riches of all the rich men.

Obviously, this is either an extraordinary widow or an extraordinary penny. Otherwise Jesus would not have brought attention to them.

So, please explain, if this is an ordinary penny, how can it be worth more than the rich man's gold? And if this widow is not a saint, why is her sacrifice worth more than that of the rich man?

Again the interpreation applied by RCC to this passage, like that of the passage in Matt on the prison, robs the passage of its original intention.

You have made an assertion without proof. Please prove that you somehow have insight into the original intent of this passage.

The riches of God belong to God,

Everything is God's. Including the shirt on your back. Yet you call that shirt your own.

My point is that it goes without saying that the treasury of the Saints is really God's. But God has given it to the Saints, just as He gave you your shirt.

and come to His Church through the sacrament of Christ when we are baptized into Christ by His Spirit (vs by water).

If you are not baptized by water then you are not baptized by His Spirit. Because God said that we must be born of water and Spirit. Not of water alone or Spirit alone.

Read the books of Ephesians and Romans and Galatians – Christ is the means by which the Church receives riches from God. Riches of mercy and grace we need right then - not to be accrued for later.

You are making the assertion therefore it is your burden of proof. I have provided the verses showing that there is a treasury in heaven wherein we store our riches. You deny it with simple assertions with neither foundation in Scripture, Tradition, nor logic.

Therein is the treasury of the Church, which we have in earthen vessels because All of us are priests to the King: “Christ in you is the hope of glory.”

Therefore, Christ is the Church’s treasure not some superabundance of merit the Christians accrue to be used later, as if we who are barely saved could do more than what God requires of us.

Then what did Jesus mean?

Matthew 6:20
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

This treasury of the saints also goes to the core of denying the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice. It becomes accrued merit that a fallible human can apply and control to create loyalty to an organization. Therein is a major problem with purgatory – it gives man a hope that said treasury of merit will get him through so he/she does not have to rely totally on Christ. He can come is his own way and the way of tradition rather than the Way clearly spelled out in scripture.

You have yet to provide any Scripture. All you have done is deny the existence of a heavenly treasury which Jesus describes.

In conclusion, the premise of this argument of the abundance of merit, which in turn supports Purgatory and indulgences, lies on wresting scripture from its original context. That makes it private interpretation even if some of this has existed as dogma for only about 500 years.
The truth of the matter is some of these teachings have been dogma since about 1500 so, as a dogma, it was not handed down from the beginning.

Well, we begin with the evidence of Scripture. Which you as yet have been unable to provide any Scripture to back up your contentions.

But we can go all the way to the Jews to sustantiate the idea of "loosing the dead from sins" 2 Macc 12:46.

And we turn to at least one Early Church Father who wrote about Purgatory:

lement of Alexandria

The believer through discipline divests himself of his passions and passes to the mansion which is better than the former one, passes to the greatest torment, taking with him the characteristic of repentance for the faults he may have committed after baptism. He is tortured then still more, not yet attaining what he sees others have acquired. The greatest torments are assigned to the believer, for God's righteousness is good, and His goodness righteous, and though these punishments cease in the course of the expiation and purification of each one, "yet" etc. (Patres Groeci. IX, col. 332 [A.D. 150-215]).

One for indulgences:

"As often as the anniversary comes round, we make offerings for the dead as birthday honours." Tertullian, The Chaplut, 3 (A.D. 211).




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