1 Corinthians 3:15 -but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire

De Maria's picture

For Catholics the answer is Purgatory.

What is the answer for Protestants?

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

De Maria's picture

I was in a hurry yesterday.

But today I've got more time.

De Maria asked if there was a Protestant approach to those verses. I gave the short version of one highly supported by many theologians on the Protestant side of the fence. I answered the question.

Thanks for doing so. But did you believe that would be the end of it? This is a discussion forum, is it not? The question was asked that we might have something to compare and contrast to Catholic doctrine vis a vis the Scriptures.

As far as I can see, Catholic doctrine matches Scripture completely.

Whereas, that verse, produces a third place which is neither heaven nor hell which Protestants can't explain.

You and I have danced this dance before; I know what you feel this passage is about, and I think its even possible you know what I think this passage is about. In the end, it comes down to the filter you interpret this passage through. Like it or not--you get offended every time I say this, and I still haven't figured out why, because it's not an insult--you are limited to the boundaries drawn by Catholic dogma*. It is impossible for you to say, "Oh. Well, I suppose my Church has it wrong, then." I, on the other hand, am fully capable of doing just that (and I have, many times) because there is no issue of inerrancy or infallibility at stake for me. I can say "I was wrong" without having to toss out they whole system.

Excellent point!

You see this as a weak point for Catholicism. But it is actually OUR STRENGTH.

Did Jesus say:

John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

We believe Scripture:

1 Timothy 3:15 (King James Version)

15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Therefore, we believe that the Church has the Truth.

So, once we have the truth, should we let it go to search for another?

Matthew 13:46
Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

No. We hold on to the truth.

But you don't. Therefore you have just admitted that YOU HAVE NO TRUTH. So, when will you be free?

Ephesians 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

I'm not suggesting you can't or don't think for yourself. It's very clear to me that you can and do. But I also know, as you've declared numerous times, that one of the reasons you post so much on the Catholic Church is because you feel compelled to defend it and correct erroneous opinions regarding it. Therefore, I believe it would be a waste of my time to AGAIN drag out all the theological support, scriptures, and explanations that I spent hours working on before.

Another excellent point! You have too much invested in YOUR OWN conclusions to ever let them go. No matter what anyone or any Church might tell you.

But we have a more Christological attitude:

John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

You see, the Church was sent by Christ:

Matthew 28:19-20 (King James Version)

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

John 17 17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

And we are sent by the Church:

2 Tim 2 2And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

And thus you violate a basic teaching of the Scriptures:

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Whereas we obey Scripture, letter and Spirit:

Hebrews 13:7 (King James Version)

7Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

You dumped 1000 scriptures on me, I cheekily analyzed them away, we went in circles: http://www.ccel.org/node/810 You feel compelled to prove to me with scripture what I have already decided does not exist in scripture: I'm in a position to change my mind. Are you in a position to change yours? Because if not, picking up our debate would be pointless.

Except that our debate is not necessarily just for us. But for those who have not made up their minds to compare what we are saying and decide for themselves whose arguments make sense and whose don't.

Here you have admitted that YOU decided what Scripture. The Catholic attitude is to let Scripture speak for itself.

I am NOT saying Catholics are mindless drones or not capable of self-thought. I AM suggesting that Catholics are Catholic because they accept Catholic teaching and reject non-Catholic teaching.

That is true. But we don't reject non-Catholic teaching simply because it is non-Catholic. I, for instance, believe that God is One. Unitarians believe that and they aren't Catholic.

That Unitarian teaching is true and it is also Catholic Teaching.

However, I do reject non-Catholic doctrine when it contradicts the truth. And it has been my experience that every time non-Catholic teaching contradicts the truth, it also contradicts the Catholic Church.

That's just a basic definition,

That's just your basic definition.

and within that basic definition is the reason I'm reluctant to restart this conversation.

If it will make you feel any better, I'm not Michael.

*If you really believe Catholic doctrine is perfect, then why do you get mad when I say you won't disagree with Catholic doctrine? Isn't that something to be proud of, rather than irritated with?

Yes it is. But if I may, perhaps Michael is irritated because you insinuate that we mindlessly follow Catholic teaching. As for me, I first rejected Catholic teaching and then, many years later, after comparing it to Protestant and Islamic teaching, I came to realize it was the most comprehensive set of teachings out there. And the most logical.




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