Can bad doctrine send you to Hell?

nodenom's picture

The few assembled on this forum are proof enough that Roman Catholics and Protestants and Mormons and JW's will never agree on certain points of doctrine. In fact within each denomination, you will also find disagreement.
This comes as no surprise since we are all still pretty messed up people. A large percentage of confessing 'christians' still suffer the same troubles as non christians as we play out our own little dramas we think important.

Now the question "how much wrong doctrine, dogma etc. must we embrace to lose our salvation"? In fact, can we lose our salvation by embracing wrong doctrine or do we just put ourselves in danger of never seeing the full life Christ has provided manifesting in our lives?

Will we ever see 'His kingdom come and His will being done' or will we just play our pitiful little parts on this stage and never see what could have been?

michael_legna's picture

Yes there is a huge divide

jqlogan said -
And an eternity apart.

Not an eternity apart but I agree there is a big difference which should not be glossed over.

jqlogan said -
By placing God's grace received through faith in the predominant position, the clear implication asserted is that (for those who hold THIS view), cooperation with grace is not a possible position to hold.

But since all men receive this grace then all men would be saved if there was no cooperation needed with it. Remember you cannot even have faith without grace so that alone is proof there is a cooperation with it.

jqlogan said -
Yet, I concur with the following statement of Trent, to a point. Faith alone does not mean faith can stay alone. And we never ssid that id did.

But the Protestant position is that we are saved by faith alone so salvation comes before and without works - so what difference does it make if faith remained alone. I mean we are already saved (before works ever came) so we have eternal life - who cares about works? Now most would say that if that happened and the person never did these works then they were never really saved - their faith was dead. But that is just begging the question because then salvation is not determined until works come to make the faith alive. Suddenly we are back at the Catholic position where salvation depends on faith and works, not faith alone.

jqlogan said -
Faith accepting God's grace still results in obedience, and taking up one's cross, and identifying with Christ's sufferings --- are as a RESULT of being made a new creature in Christ. The order makes ALL the difference

Then tell me how did this dead faith (which was alone prior to the works) save? How did it become alive and perfect without works? The faith that precedes works is not a saving faith. The order does make a difference but the proper one is not your order.

"Wherefore, no one ought to flatter himself up with faith alone, fancying that by faith alone he is made an heir, and will obtain the inheritance, even though he suffer not with Christ, that so he may be also glorified with him. For even Christ Himself, as the Apostle saith, Whereas he was the son of God, learned obedience by the things which he suffered, and being consummated, he became, to all who obey him, the cause of eternal salvation. "

jqlogan said -
This final quote from Trent forever separates the two views and, in my opinion, the two parts of Christendom. I have explicitly said that one view is correct and the other is not. Yet, no individual's salvation is in question because only God can judge that - we have to keep that in mind here, and I belive I have.

I agree this is the dividing line, but until someone can show your order can reconcile the teachings in James about a living faith being needed for salvation and that faith without works is dead I cannot cross the line to your side. I on the other hand have shown a reconciliation for every verse presented from Scripture as to how works of loving obedience to the Gospel are not spoken against and are indeed required to have a true faith, and that salvation is determined at the judgment.

jqlogan said -
Contrast that with the simple Gospel: We enter relationship with God because He graciously provided salvatino through Christ's person, death and resurrection. We can, through faith alone, yield to the call of God to come Him because He frees our will to say yes or no. Until we say yes, all we can do is say yes or no to His call to become a His child and friend and slave and lamb, etc.

But the Gospel is not simple because there is great disagreement even among Protestants as to what that Gospel is and how one is saved. And the Scriptures never say we answer yes or no through faith alone, so that can hardly be part of the Gospel since it exists nowhere in scripture. Yes, it does in places say faith without works but that is not the same thing as faith alone. Not only because we could put all kinds of other things in there, like hope and love, or oranges for that matter (just to show the non-rigorous logical and grammatical sense of the statements); but also because each of these times it mentions works it refers specifically to works aimed at earning salvation and never speaks against works of obedience meant to accept the gift as the rest of Scripture specifically tells us too.




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