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The Xmas Thread: Discussions on secular/pagan practices

Loutzenhiser's picture

This thread is for the discussion of secular/pagan Xmas problems and thoughts. I used Xmas to differentiate this thread form the Christmas thread. To discuss the birth of Jesus please use the Christmas Thread.

JeffLogan's picture

Apparently not sharp enough

A reply to: you've sharpened up your arguments
Submitted by JStaller on Mon, 2010-02-15 12:21.

Justin, still defending Christmas, eh? You make a very eloquent argument but I cannot confirm its truthfulness without some references. So I will comment on the one citation you did give.

You quoted Galatians...

    Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

When Paul writes, "Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years", are you making application to our day? If so, is is more applicable to honoring a day which God made holy at creation and commanded the Jews to remember to keep holy? Or, to the numerous holy days of obligation the Catholic church has instituted? Which instance are you implying is returning to "the weak and beggarly elements?" And, which tends more to bring a person into bondage? The commandments of God, or the traditions of men?

Would you include honoring God's Sabbath with will worship or obedience? What about church traditions such as holy days of obligation and precepts which command the faithful to fasting and give alms?

    Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. Col 2:20-23 (KJV)

Do you also believe that Paul cast any one of God's commandments upon the dung hill only to embrace another day which God has no where spoken of as being holy?

    Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, Phil 3:8 (KJV)

It makes no sense to discard one day only to embrace another. Especially when the 7th day was blessed and nowhere do we have a record of God pronouncing a blessing on the 1st day. Only the church has blessed that day.

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"Where two or three are gathered together in my name,
there am I in the midst of them." Viola! Church!
(Matt 18:20 (KJV))

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. -Proverbs 18:2 NIV