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The Xmas Thread: Discussions on secular/pagan practices

Loutzenhiser's picture

This thread is for the discussion of secular/pagan Xmas problems and thoughts. I used Xmas to differentiate this thread form the Christmas thread. To discuss the birth of Jesus please use the Christmas Thread.

JeffLogan's picture

A reply to: Jeff said: "If you can show

A reply to: Jeff said: "If you can show
Submitted by jwmcmac on Thu, 2010-01-28 22:51.

JW said, "...but this establishment of a New Sabbath not being by Scripture per se . . . but mainly by the Authority of the Church in Her establishing of Her practices. . . Sunday has been the Sabbath of the New Covenant from the beginning of the Church."

True, the Roman Catholic Church, believing she was able, has thought to change the law of God. Today, people unwittingly accept the authority of the Roman Catholic Church by honoring her Sunday while forgetting to keep holy the 7th day Sabbath of the Lord.

The Apostolic church kept the Sabbath

But this was not so in the apostolic church. Upon Jesus' death the disciples were still observing the Sabbath day. They did not even embalm the body of their beloved for the Sabbath drew nigh. The women came early Sunday morning after the Sabbath had past to anoint His body with oils and that is how they discovered He had risen.

Paul kept the Sabbath with the Gentiles

And, years later, Paul preached a powerful sermon to the Jews on the Sabbath day. And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Acts 13:42 (KJV) And what did Paul say to them? Here was a perfect opportunity for Paul to teach the Gentile believers about the so-called Christian sabbath. But what did Paul say? Did he say, 'You don't need to wait a whole week until the next Jewish Sabbath. Come tomorrow on Sunday the 'new Christian sabbath' and I will preach to you these words.' But that is not what happened. Scripture says, And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy..." Acts 13:44-45 (KJV) Yes, the Jews were jealous that Paul should preach the gospel to Gentiles but nowhere is there any mention of any transfer of the Sabbath to Sunday. Not even for Gentiles. Why is this?

Jesus gave council concerning the future observance of the Sabbath

And Jesus prophesied that the Sabbath should still be honored years after His resurrection when he said, Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains... But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: Matt 24:16-20 (KJV)

Isaiah tells of Sabbath observance in the New Jerusalem

And Isaiah prophesied concerning the Sabbath with these words. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:23-24 (KJV)

And you call me rebellious when I am in good company?

Now you say I am rebellious because I will not obey the precepts of the Catholic Church. But I say, what has God commanded? And, it is right that men should obey God rather than man. Have no other gods before me, saith the Lord, for I am a jealous God. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to worship them. Bowing means not merely the prostrating of oneself but rather it refers to humbling oneself and laying down one's will to obey the will of another. If we submit our will to the church in obeying traditions which make void the law of God then we are bowing to those traditions and effectively making them our master above God Himself. We honor the day (or days, such as Christmas, Easter, Valentines, Halloween, etc.) of the church above the day which God has blessed and sanctified. As in so doing we give higher authority and respect to the traditions of the church than we do to the law of God.

1st Sunday law enacted by Pagan Emperor

The first recorded law honoring Sunday as a day of rest was enacted by Emperor Constantine in the 4th century. Constantine bore the title Pontifex Maximus, a title of the pagan priesthood, and when he converted to Christianiy he took upon himself ecclesiastical duties which should have been reserved for the church. Later, the Bishop of Rome adopted this title of Pontifex Maximus; a title he borrowed from the Pagan Emperors, a title they bore as heads of the pagan priesthood.

God's church does not make void God's law

JW writes, "Either the Church has . . . as CHRIST said . . . 'All Authority and Power in Heaven and on Earth has been Given to me by MY FATHER . . . and I Give it unto you . . ." . . . etc . . . my paraphrase . . . or CHRIST was lying . . . and we both know that CHRIST never ever lied about anything."

Yes, God's church has authority but it derives from God and as such will not contradict God's authority. That is how we recognize God's true church.

We should obey God before men

JW writes, "You don't accept anything from the Church . . . and are in fact your own Authority when you self-interpret the Book in a way contrary to the Church which CHRIST Sent to Teach and Preach to the ends of the earth and to the ends of time."

I am not obligated to accept anything which contradicts God's law. Yes, God established a church and that church will uphold God's law not seek to change it. What is the witness of scripture? In contrast to those who receive the mark of the beast scripture says, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12 (KJV) Notice it says the saints "keep the commandments of God." It does not say the saints keep the precepts of the church of God. Scripture says the saints "keep the commandments of God."

The same church which thinks it transferred the solemnity of the 7th Day Sabbath of God to the 1st day of the week is the same church which honors Christmas on the 25th of December. We may use that day to glorify God just as we ought to use every day to glorify God. But we ought to admit that it stems from a pagan ritual which the church adopted and Christianized. That fact along should give us pause.

    ------ ------ ------- ------ ------ ------- ------ ------ ------
    "Where two or three are gathered together in my name,
    there am I in the midst of them." Viola! Church!
    (Matt 18:20 (KJV))

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. -Proverbs 18:2 NIV



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