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The Xmas Thread: Discussions on secular/pagan practices

Loutzenhiser's picture

This thread is for the discussion of secular/pagan Xmas problems and thoughts. I used Xmas to differentiate this thread form the Christmas thread. To discuss the birth of Jesus please use the Christmas Thread.

JeffLogan's picture

A reply to: Very well said

A reply to:

Very well said Father
Submitted by jwmcmac on Wed, 2010-01-27 22:43.

jw posted:

    Jeff, who likes no Church rules . . . makes up one of his own . . . telling us . . . do not enjoy CHRISTMAS . . . unless you can do it 'my' way.

There is no place for Church rules, or traditions, which make void the law of God. My church teaches me to obey God's law and to hold His word supreme. Even teaching me to judge what they say by scripture and if there is disagreement to hold to scripture and reject the church. You cannot say that about your church which teaches you to obey the church over and above even God. If you find something in scripture which did not agree with your church they would simply interpret it for you in such a way that it would appear to agree. Thus, the church becomes your holy spirit and your conscience.

I don't make up my own rules either. I simply try to do what God's word teaches and God never gave us Christmas. The exact date of Christ's birth was kept secret for a reason. Christmas is merely a tradition of the Catholic church (Christ's Mass). Consider Saint Nicholas. He keeps record of whose bad or good and withholds gifts from the bad indoctrinating children at a very young age with a type of works doctrine.

I don't celebrate Easter either. Or Saint Valentine's Day. Or, All Hallow's Eve (Halloween). Or, All Saints' Day. Or,... what are the other Catholic Holy Days?

Regarding your understanding of sin. Sin is not something we do. Those are sins. Sin is what resides naturally in the carnal heart (and mind). It is variance (enmity) with God. Sins, the outward acts, are merely the outward manifestation of the sin which lives within. The external things do not defile the man. "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man..." Matt 15:19-20 (KJV) And neither can external things, such as sacraments, cleans a man. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also." Matt 23:25-26 (KJV)

So we find here a principle that says if you clean the heart then the behavior will also be clean. But the inverse isn't true. You cannot clean the heart by cleaning up the external behavior. You cannot reach the heart by external ceremonies, rituals, or sacraments. The work must being with the heart or all in vanity. And it is certain that we cannot clean our own hearts. Scripture attest to the fact. "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil." Jer 13:23 (KJV) So then how do we cleanse our hearts? We don't. We can't. We ask God to do it. "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." Psalms 51:10 (KJV)

You are taught that by eating Christ's flesh and drinking His blood you receive Christ in your heart. But God has forbidden us to consume blood(1). But the church has made this law of God void by its tradition. (Though the wine is not really blood, yet those who believe it to be so are transgressing a law of God--though probably unknowingly since they have most likely never read these scriptures since they do not feed themselves spiritually but rely upon the church to feed them. And why should they read their Bibles since they have been taught they cannot understand it anyway? What's the point? So they probably don't read the Bible outside of hearing the gospel at mass. If they did read their Bibles they might understand and then would most likely leave the church. So it's safer to teach them that only the church can rightly interpret scripture. That way the church can maintain control over them--which, given the level of control, would make even a good church bad. Power corrupts.).

We are taught by scripture that Christ is received by faith--that is, by belief and trust. Belief in God's promises and trust that He is able and willing to fulfill them. This method of faith apart from works especially addresses Adam and Eve's original sin which distrusted God's word and trusted the words of the deceiver. The serpent said, "Eat this and you will be as gods." The church says, "Eat this and you will become Christ Himself." Same lie, isn't it?

So conforming our behavior to a set of church rules, even God's rules, will not answer the sin problem. The sin problem must be addressed in our hearts. We must put off the old nature and put on the new by being born again, not of flesh but, of the spirit of God. That is how we become children of God. It is not through outward rituals such as sacraments which makes us children of God.

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1. "Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh. Thou shalt not eat it; thou shalt pour it upon the earth as water. Thou shalt not eat it; that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, when thou shalt do that which is right in the sight of the LORD." Deut 12:23-25 (KJV)
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“The path of true piety is so plain as to require
but little political direction.” --George Washington,
re: absence of "Jesus Christ" in U.S. Constitution.

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. -Proverbs 18:2 NIV