Where two or more and gathered in my name. I am there in the midst of them.

Loutzenhiser's picture

Is this the "church" then? A gathering of two or more in his name?

JeffLogan's picture

ML said - It is a strict one

ML said - It is a strict one to one relationship. If no heaven or chaos exists in heaven (and we both agree none does) then on matters of doctrine none can exist in His Church on earth.

jq says - But Michael, everyone that disagreed with the church was kicked out and either tortured or killed. So who in their right mind would dissent? --except for Martin Luther? That is some way to prevent chaos in the church. There appears to be no free will in the church. However, where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty. God allows men to disagree with him and even then he woes them back.

I am sorry we must travel down this road to disprove your arguments. But the only way to disprove something you try to establish with the church is to address the issue of the church itself.

"Iniquitas mentita est sibi"

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“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you."