jroberts's picture

How do y'all interpret Christ's exhortation to love your enemies?

jwmcmac's picture



Thanks for that wonderful exposition of Truth on ‘love your enemies’ . . . and I mean that sincerely.

Don't forget to Love me too . . . as you read this.

In reading your post . . . some different thoughts came to my mind from your main topic but which sprang forth unto my mind from that page of Calvin’s and your thoughts . . . which my thoughts should probably be put into a separate thread topic from yours. But since the thoughts came to me in reading your thoughts and are in part a response to the wonderful Truth you expressed . . . I Hope you won’t mind me saying them here on your page.

Please do not be angry with me in my saying the following things below. I do not disagree with any of your’s or Calvin’s posting.


Do we want the Whole Truth or do we want well-expounded parts there-of? To me . . . the Whole Truth only comes by way of certain and infallible Authority . . . this being where Calvin and the other reformers may have gotten off track . . . this as observed from my view and certainly not from your view.

Many at this site have accepted the so-called 'fact' that the Church went wrong . . . perhaps many times over . . . somewhere along the way in the first 1500 years of Christendom . . . the reformers finally being compelled to correct their Mother’s errors . . . leaving from within Her midst . . . and thus discounting the work of the counter-reformation which followed the reformation . . . in which counter-reformation the Saints of the Church . . . such as Saint Francis . . . remained within Her visible Body and rebuilt Her from within in humble Obedience.

The following is not to argue . . . but to learn and investigate . . . with an open heart. I realize these are my beliefs and not your beliefs . . . your beliefs being very likely very much different from mine.

Let us contemplate that the Church in the day of Calvin was very corrupt in many of Her members . . . this being the case off and on throughout history . . . and even in our day . . . many Bishops often doing their own thing and/or neglecting the flock and the Faith . . . we needing to pray for them.

May we look at it from this flip-side way . . . for many of you . . . for just a little while here? For the sake of this dialogue . . . let us accept . . . or at least consider . . . that many of the members of the Church were corrupt in those days of the reform . . . as many members of the Church clearly are from time to time in the Church’s history . . . but let us also accept . . . or at least consider . . . that the Faith of the Church always has remained in tact through every time of corruption and through every heresy . . . just as the Faithful members of the Church Believe now and have always Believed.

We . . . in all of our separate ‘Church’s’ . . . have gone through such situations and times of corruption as were present in those days. When a Faithful Catholic goes through this . . . he usually stays, prays and fights (Spiritually speaking) . . . because there is nowhere else to go. When a Faithful Protestant runs into this situation . . . he may form his own Church or find another or leave . . . or may do what the Faithful Catholic does . . . stay and renew his Church.

With this in mind . . . and I know this can be a bottomless pit of endless argument . . . but let's not do that here . . . please.

With this in mind . . . and having read Calvin's truly fine words in the post by 'klove' . . . I begin to see one aspect of what may have been part of the problem of those days of the reformers . . . we all tend to get very caught up in the bad examples of others . . . associating the whole body with the few or many bad members. I think the reformers did this . . . and in mis-applying the blame . . . we can become a big part of the problem ourselves . . . all for the best motives.

What’s missing in Calvin’s wonderful words?

Calvin's words . . . repeated in klove's post . . . are very good.

But what is it which is subtly missing from Calvin's great exposition of Truth? . . . The Church is missing. The Whole and entire Truth is missing . . . in the speaking so eloquently about a part of the Whole Truth . . . the Whole Truth can be lost by subtly denying other Truths.

Every Faithful Catholic knows exactly what the Church Teaches about any given doctrine of Faith and where this belongs in the Whole entirety of the Faith . . . because of these being the Faith which the Church Teaches us and because we Believing that She has the Authority and Knowledge and understanding to Teach us this Faith.

As good as Calvin's words and Teaching are in this exposition on "Love your enemies' . . . and his Teaching being very good . . . this is evidence how one can understand one aspect or another of the Faith very well on an individual basis and still miss the barn door . . . miss the Glorious Forest for the few or many bad Trees that may be in it after a storm or fire . . . only seeing the broken or charred surface. Calvin's is an individual belief . . . a great understanding of 'Love your enemy' . . . which by the way is a very Catholic understanding of this Teaching. Maybe we all agree with his understanding of this Teaching . . . and maybe not. We certainly don't believe because Calvin said so.

A Faithful Christian should always understand that the roots always remain and the roots of the Forest . . . the Whole and entire One Church and Her Faith . . . will always come back to Life . . . even more Gloriously and more resplendent than previous to having weathered the storm or survived the fire . . . rising from Her apparent death on 'Good Friday' to Her Glorious Resurrection on 'Easter Sunday'.

At least that is how it is supposed to work. Sometimes, however, the crucifixion of the Church almost makes Her un-recognizable . . . but She is all there . . . unbroken.

The emphasis in the reformer's New understandings of Faith-only, of Scripture-only, of Grace-only . . . separated these perhaps very real Truths from the Authoritative Teaching of the Church . . . and thus separated Truth from HIS Mother . . . Which Mother is the Depositary of the Truth . . . Which Mother meditates on these Truths in their entirety and in their proper place and order . . . meditating on these in Her Immaculate Heart.

As well as Calvin or Luther or any may speak about or proclaim any given one Truth . . . he still is speaking about parts of the Whole and entire Truth and due to this . . . he may be taking it out of the context of the Whole Truth . . . separating the Child from the Mother . . . these two always going together.

Now . . . whether any of you agree or disagree . . . that is only the way I believe . . . and . . . I understand that you probably do not believe this way. You . . . and I . . . have that right . . . regardless of which of us is correct. I only propose this as one looking at the situation from inside my Church looking out and back to the past . . . so that you can at least see and understand my beliefs . . . even if you don’t agree with same.

GOD Bless us all.