Fighting in wars

michael_legna's picture


I am starting this new thread in response to something you said in the Interpreting Scripture with Scripture thread.

I agree with all you say about the fact that to truly believe in Jesus we must obey His teachings, but I think we differ on some aspects of what those teachings are. That is why I cannot agree with the following:

drp said -
Back to your question about my point. In both World Wars and in other arenas (of which N. Ireland is only one), “believing Christians” assaulted each other with all sorts of weapons. They “believed”, but can we say they “followed”? They were firmly within an orthodoxy (Protestant or Catholic), but were they Christians in their behavior? (Mt 23:3)

I see no indication of any change on the part of the leaders of the various “Christian” nations. Do you? They still “believe”, but are they any better at “following”?

If not, where do we turn? Is it possible to find good, practical leadership in the bible? And just what must we do to “follow” Jesus?

Of course Jesus taught us to love one another, but love does not always involve peace.

That is why Paul tells us:

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Sometimes in order to protect the weak or to stand up for truth and virtue one must resist evil.

Jesus Himself resisted evil when he drove the sellers out of the Temple (Lt 21, Lk 11).

I myself have made a personal decision never to take another life (because it removes that person's last chance to accept Christ as their savior) but I can certainly see defending myself and family and loved ones short of the point of force intending to cause death, and I can certainly see how others may not be led to that same decision through their understanding of Christ's teachings.

I guess I would ask you where the Scriptures teach in a consistent, unified method that we cannot go to war, fight and even kill to defend that which is right? What is the specific Scriptural basis for this, and how does it address all the scriptures which speak to the followers of God and Christ who did just that?

But of course this needs to be a separate thread so the moderator does not remove the posts as being off topic. :)

drp's picture

I think this is addressed to me.

Answer: The solutions have not and will not come from man. The solution will come only from Jehovah and his kingdom government.

When things become like this:
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

Then there will be no sickness or death:
Isa 35:5,6 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then shall the lame man leap as a hart, and the tongue of the dumb shall sing; for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.
Rev 21:3,4 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.

No crime or violence:
Psa 37:9-11 For evil-doers shall be cut off; But those that wait for Jehovah, they shall inherit the land. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: Yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and he shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the land, And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
Pro 2:21,22 For the upright shall dwell in the land, And the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the land, And the treacherous shall be rooted out of it.

True, worldwide peace:
Psa 46:9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; He breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; He burneth the chariots in the fire.
Psa 72:7 In his days shall the righteous flourish, And abundance of peace, till the moon be no more.

Satisfying work, good housing, and no 'mortgage market meltdown':
Isa 65:21-23 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree shall be the days of my people, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for calamity; for they are the seed of the blessed of Jehovah, and their offspring with them.

An abundance of healthful food:
Psa 72:16 There shall be abundance of grain in the earth upon the top of the mountains; The fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: And they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.
Psa 67:6 The earth hath yielded its increase: God, even our own God, will bless us.

... and life will be a delight, not "Hell on earth":
Isa 35:1 The wilderness and the dry land shall be glad; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
Psa 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, And dwell therein for ever.
Psa 145:16 Thou openest thy hand, And satisfiest the desire of every living thing.

It's Jehovah's job to deliver on those promises, in his own time.
Hab 2:2,3 And Jehovah answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tablets, that he may run that readeth it. For the vision is yet for the appointed time, and it hasteth toward the end, and shall not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not delay.

In the meantime, I have my job to do, straight from his Son's mouth:
Mat 28:19,20 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.

If I kill someone, he can't respond to the message. If I am killed, I can't spread the message:
Psa 115:17 The dead praise not Jehovah, Neither any that go down into silence;
Isa 38:18 For Sheol cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: They that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

Consistent with our hope, it was well-known that Jehovah's Witnesses would not attempt to escape from Nazi custody, and could be trusted as barbers to the camp staff. No doubt you would have slit some throats ... Actually, just one throat before you were gunned down. (And several of your fellows with you, as an example.) Instead, we witnessed to the guards and some became Christians. Constructive, not destructive.
Unless etc. all scriptures are ASV

Unless etc. all scriptures are NWT