Pre- mid- or post-?

I've been discussing the tribulation issue with some friends of mine this evening... We are all over the place. Every one of us supports one of the other. Me, well, I am of the opinion that Jesus is coming back. Plain and simple. I would love to hear your opinion.
Chad.

I’ll post this before I read your latest.

I need the room on my HD. :-)

Here’s the passage, KJV with NWT, line by line:
1. And the VINEYARD which thy right hand hath planted,
2. and the BRANCH that thou madest strong for thyself.
3. It is burned with fire, it is cut down:
4. they perish at the rebuke of thy countenance.
5. Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand,
6. upon the SON OF MAN whom thou madest strong for thyself.

And the stock that your right hand has planted,
And [look] upon the son whom you have made strong for yourself.
It is burned with fire, cut off.
From the rebuke of your face they perish.
Let your hand prove to be upon the man of your right hand,
Upon the son of mankind whom you have made strong for yourself, (Psalm 80:15-17)

Notes by line; KJV & Strong first; NWT & Watchtower second.
1. vineyard; stock:
Strong: H3657; kan-naw'; From H3661; a plant (as set): - X vineyard.
NWT: Or, “branch [of the vine].” By a change of the first Heb. letter, “garden.”

2. branch; son
Strong: H1121; bane; From H1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, … one born, bough, branch, breed, … [My note: This is “ben”, as in Wallace’s [Judah] Ben Hur = Son of Hur]
NWT: “Son,” M; LXXSyVgc, “son of man”; T, “king Messiah (anointed).”

3. Cut down; cut off:
Strong: H3683; kaw-sakh'; A primitive root; to cut off: - cut down (up).
NWT: No note; here both mean killed or destroyed.

5. be; prove to be:
Strong: H1961; haw-yaw'; A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): … be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), … [This is the “I am” of John 8:58 in the KJV]
NWT: No note; “prove to be”, with a related verb, is consistent with our derivation of “Jehovah” at Ex 3:14: However, Moses said to the [true] God: “Who am I that I should go to Phar´aoh …” To this he said: “Because I shall prove to be with you, …” Nevertheless, Moses said to the [true] God: “Suppose I am now come to the sons of Israel and I do say to them, ‘The God of YOUR forefathers has sent me to YOU,’ and they do say to me, ‘What is his name?’ …” At this God said to Moses: “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” And he added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU.’” Then God said once more to Moses … (Exodus 3:11-15) [Lengthy footnote furnished on request]

6. son of man; son of mankind:
Strong: H120; aw-dawm'; From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.) … [IOW, Adam]
NWT: Or, “earthling man.” Heb., ’a·dham´.

Summary: I don’t see enough to persuade me. Taking the notes in order:
1. Strong was correct for his day as to [the whole] vineyard vs. a [root]stock or branch, but we now have access to more and better Hebrew manuscripts. And, as I understand it, the KJV people had only Greek mss., and late ones at that. Strong 'concorded' what they did. I’ll stay with the NWT people.
2. “ben” was/is first of all, “son”; even Strong thought “branch” was a less likely translation. If it’s “son” here, then your allegory breaks down.
6. “adam” probably the most generic title for man; it’s where the first man got his name! The NWT “son of mankind” is perfectly acceptable. In any case, I don’t see how “son of man” suddenly became a ‘magic word’ that must mean “The Church”.
Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Zechariah were referring first to ancient Israel, which needed scolding, warning of the Captivity, and reassurance of a ‘remnant to be saved’. Of course, “all things written aforetime were for our instruction”, so we’re encouraged to apply the teachings to the Christian congregation (“church”). No need, though, as I see it, to apply it to Jesus’ foretold return from heaven in Revelation.
Had fun doing the research, though.

Daniel ch. 7 is interesting in its own right. I don’t see it applying to a congregation on earth anytime before our own.
You wrote, “When is Jesus coming back? "Where two or three are gathered in my name..."” That’s Mt 18:20, the context of which is clearly instructions to an earthly organization operating after Jesus returns to heaven in his spirit body. Nothing about his return. Certainly Jesus can be ‘in our midst on earth’ in a spiritual sense while residing in heaven. Jehovah has been ‘with’ his followers for some 6000 years in the same way. They both have the use of angels for such, not to mention Jehovah’s holy spirit.

As to the NT, there are many references to the church (I prefer “congregation” as a more useful translation of ekklesia) under symbolic and illustrative names, without the necessity of adding “son of man”:
“living stones … being built up [into] a spiritual house” (1 Peter 2:5)
“… fellow citizens of the holy ones … members of the household of God, … the whole building, … a holy temple for Jehovah.” (Ephesians 2:19-21)
Not to forget, “the Israel of God.” (Galatians 6:16)

A search for “son of man” in e-Sword’s KJV (NT) gives 85 verse hits. The same in the NWT CD-rom gives 87 phrase occurrences. About the same. 83 of NWT hits are in the gospels and all of those are references to Jesus by him. In virtually every case it requires a stretch to say that he is referring to a future church rather than using a euphemism for himself, like the Word or wisdom or Son of God.

I’m looking for a return of the son of man himself in spirit form; not a return in a physical body or in the form of a group of people already here on earth. Moreover, I believe that return has already occurred in recent history. That belief lets me account for many other things I can see with my literal eye and with my eye of understanding, like Job at 42:5: “I have heard about [Jehovah], but now my own eye does see you.” Cf. John 1:18. I asked my original question about Rev 1:7 because, as you no doubt know, some use it to argue for a visible return of Jesus.

Anyway, what about Rev 16:14-16? Dan 2:44? Don’t those foretell more than the establishment of a new religion in our past?

Unless etc. all scriptures are NWT
Doug