Failure of Churches, Whose Fault

Loutzenhiser's picture

This question has been circulating in my head for the last few days and seems to be a subject of prime interest among several members here, so I thought to start this thread to try to answer the question.

First let me be clear in that I do not believe that all churches or pastors are failing in thier resposibility to God. But I do see many churches and pastors failing or struggling in the winds of adversity that blow through the religious community today. WHY?

Let me set up our situation here. We live in the beautiful Pacific Northwest, west of Seattle on the Kitsap Peninsula. We are home to some of the richest and most technical businesses in the world, ie., Microsoft, Real Player, etc.. In this region the fastest growing religion is Wican. That is New Age witchcraft. In our area the highly praised kids are the Crystal and Indigo children. For more information on crystal children link here. Church attending christianity is some %6.5 of the population. The large churches here (average membership 600 to 5000) either teach christianity/hinduism or prosperity message. For example Casey Treat. On the small end we have several congergations that use sheperding such as the Apostolic Lighthouse. (I feel for the women in that church. TJ and I have "rescued" 3 of them from thier controlling/abusive husbands.) The fastest growing christian community in the area is the storefront pentecostal movment. Small churces of between 5 to 50 members. The problem here is the lack of umbrella or oversite allows for some "intersting" beliefs to flurish. The Church of God of Prophecy is the largest number of this group. Here one can find everything from Mary, Jesus' mother as the literial wife of God to "It is not your fault you are failing in life. You must remove the Demons that are controlling your circumstance". A little something for everyone. We even have large congeration with an excellent pastor who teaches that water baptism died out with the Apostles (extreme dispensationalism), Grace Bible Church.

Can one wonder that I am seeking for the tenets of the original church?

The highest category of failure among the mainstream pastors in this area is "the other woman" and the second is (and this shocked me) pastors who come to believe that they are Jesus or are a direct messenger of God (in other words their words have precedence over the bible). Latest victim to that one, one of our local Nazarene churches.

Now the question is what do we do about it and how can we go about purifying God's church. Or do we just start over again with a new movment? How about the Spiritual Cleanliness Movment? What basic tenets should God's church embrace? How do we keep the pastors and congergation pure and inline with God's word?

M7rd's picture

going home and its not here!

All G-d, All the time...amen. There is no difference between the Jew and Gentile now...over 2000 years ago a second 'miraculous exodus' was announced! Just like the first being a rehearsal or dry run for the second. The overall notable and recognizable symbolic similarities between the two were unmistakable! Our G-d was behind it 'ALL' and did show mighty works to deliver 'HIS' chosen people from captivity. Their uncircumcised hearts were revealed in the 'exodus' while enroute to the promised kingdom. Before arriving they were introduced to the living Torah/Yeshua that pre-existed all things, that through and by and for were all things made. In this "copy" of the heavenly Yerusalem was a copy of the temple made with hands as well. With too many to retell here, for the sake of "blog brevity", historical twists and turns occurred. The seen world temple system existed several hundred years up to the announcement of the real exodus to come. To those who think after the flesh and have forgotten who they are and where they are and why, (the cross apparently not speaking loudly enough to them?). A reply that echoes the fleshly mindset of Nicodemus would be quite reasonable upon hearing about the prospects of another exodus! lol GO WHERE?? In this realm we've run out of places to run to! Where indeed were the chosen people of our G-d being called out from amongst them to go?
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

Heb 11:9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise.

Heb 11:10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God.

Heb 11:11 By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised.

Heb 11:12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were 'strangers and exiles' on the earth.

Heb 11:14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland.

Heb 11:15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return.

Heb 11:16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

Where???

Heb 12:18 For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest

Heb 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them.

Heb 12:20 For they could not endure the order that was given, "If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned."

Heb 12:21 Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I tremble with fear."

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,

Heb 12:23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Heb 12:25 See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven.

Heb 12:26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens."

Heb 12:27 This phrase, "Yet once more," indicates the removal of things that are shaken--that is, things that have been made--in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain.

Heb 12:28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe,

Heb 12:29 for our God is a consuming fire.

During the Jewish wars and the destruction of Yerusalem around 70AD the carnage and suffering was as it were of "Biblical proportions"! For those unfamiliar with the sobering graphics of it, here is a link for study> http://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/ The importance of this understanding and especially from the 'Jewish perspective is absolutely crucial!! Why? As one studies it all and reads, one finds a stark similarity to the current ubiquity of the so-called earthly chrisitan church lamenting and echoing almost in some cases verbatim the encroaching attack of the world upon their holy cities and temples. The Jewish mindset never would consider that this was the will of our G-d. Blame was placed upon the Romans, and this, that and everything else. Only a small group of Christians at the time saw it for what it was and is. The end, in a most thorough way to usher in the new WAY. Their hearts were not circumcised as we know and the Levitical priesthood could not make one perfect as it was never designed to do anyway. Yet, because of thinking after the flesh and of course still being in the flesh, the thought of losing some patch of ground within an old garment symbolically appointed as the holy patch was unthinkable. The preservation of 'their' carnal life within this realm as opposed to the citizenry of the true Kingdom of G-d and that of the heavenly Yerusalem was an exodus to nowhere. The small heretical sect know as the Way was just that, small and heretical! Many Messiahs arose during that war, many prophets and all in the name of the former way being preserved. We of course would call them false Messiahs and false prophets simply because they from the Christian perspective were actually fighting against G-d!? But from the standpoint of the common religious viewpoint of the Jews this would not be the case at all....Who is not right that fights for what G-d has set up? lol

The destruction was so complete and the old way of the first covenant so dismantled as to be called Jewish Diaspora! By the time our G-d was finished reducing the city of Yerusalem to little more than an uninhabitable parking lot. The Romans put a for sale sign on it to wit no one was interested in it anymore. To the Christians watching this, the 'spiritual exodus' had begun to what father Abraham had longed for from afar. Many so-called Christians like their Jewish counterparts are lost without a patch of land to covet for the flesh. After all, flesh and blood does not inherit nor enter into that kingdom! Nor is it a place that one can enter into by still being a citizen of this realm! There is nothing new under the sun and not surprising that carnal Christians now bite and devour one another in the blame game of why they can't still be called G-d's chosen people while residing in synagogues built with their own hands in every 'way'. There is a subliminal message being spoken by those who seek to explain away and solve by whatever means necessary the preservation of the realm against the current deluge that is ever increasing to this realm. A vain heart message that will not entertain the obvious truth about it, only being spoken with a small cry by the remnant. The Jews comparing themselves to themselves and to the others from vanity's heart thought of themselves; self righteous. The thought of being reclassified within the all-encompassing cross of being all men and unrighteous, no not one, was absurd! The desire to stay in this realm with such a comparison to most or the rest of the world, does wonders for ones ego and vanity's heart. The living Ark/Yeshua will set sail eventually and the former will pass away! Only the living Torah/Yeshua will live forever and all those hidden within him in Spirit via the cross and truly reborn!!...sweet journey, sweet 'Exodus' shalom...m>r&d




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