Matt 6:12: Is our forgiveness from God and our forgiveness of others reversed?

mike petersen's picture

I heard a person explain today that in Matt 6:12 the early church had reversed the subject verse and placed "our" request for forgiveness from God ahead of our forgiveness of others. It originally would have read ""as we forgive our debtors, forgive us our debts." He referenced some early documents, including some early Armenian scriptures. I can't find anything relating to his comments..........anyone got any ideas or references?

Blessings, Michael

rossaulles's picture

debts are not debts

Hi Brethren and greetings in the name of Christ

Wading in here.
Simply put; read this with an Israeli mind not a "church mind". Keeping the historical context is as critical as keeping the scope of the verse and chapter and book context. More often than not the Gentiles learn from what is being indirectly stated. It is a great error of context for the gentiles to take this as "literally to themselves" and wade into the context where they are not being considered as yet.

Yehoshua (Jesus) is speaking to who? And about what? Israel the lost sheep to whom He was sent. Israel when ye pray do it this way. Matt 6:12 is literally "kai aphes hmin hEmin ta opheilEmata hEmOn hOs kai hEmeis aphiemen tois opheiletais hEmOn = and remit to us the debts of us as and we are remitting to the debtors of us"

The two principal, and only verbs of the verse are "aphes = REMIT!imperative mood; 2nd Aorist; Active voice; second person singular and "aphiemen = are remit" indicative mood; present tense ; Active; First Person; Plural. The verbs action in mood indicates the nouns intensity. REMIT! what? The debts of us as we remit the debt of others. The Lord's Prayer is Israeli and to the Israel. What can we learn from that as gentile believers? Much if we keep the context but only confusion remains if we take on that which in effect does not directly apply to us.

The first phrase is driven by the intensity of the imperative mood "REMIT!" but this intensity is in the aorist tense which essentially drives this request into the infinite i.e. REMIT!.. What is remitted? Sins... No! Not in the moral sense but literal debts [opheilhmata noun_ neuter accusative plural] The gender sense of the neuter implies application and the accusative implies more completely so, than the nominative actual state viz: "REMIT! all the debts applied to us"

Yeshua (Jesus) is the one speaking, most forget this, and as the prophet of Y'hweh to Israel, He is being direct about what they, Israel needed to partition the Father for. And given their history of unbelief, disobedience and rebellion this partition is most intense. The sense is something like this "Make sure you ask the Father to REMIT! all the debts applied to you". Suspended in the Aorist tense implies their greatest debt of all... Israel’s rejection of the Messiah. We see that with the advantage of hind sight they did not see the imperative nature of this in their present tense of the times.

This is a Sabbatical release directive for Israel i.e. remit the debts of us, before the Passover of Messiah, while He is still under the Torah of Moses (Jesus had not yet died and was still under the Law and hence no death of the testator as yet). That Y'hweh would acquit the debt Israel owed to Him for their covenant breaking practices and rebellion was most imperative, because the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand; as it is written, "repent the Kingdom of heaven is at hand". Of all the nations of the earth, Israel was the chosen people and so very indebted to Y'hweh for His grace in this election of them.They has abused this calling in disobedience.

If He did not acquit them they would not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, hence the intensity of the imperative with the accusative noun. But the intensity of the imperative is suspended in the infinite of the Aorist. This suspension in the aorist is quiet remarkable given what was about to follow in the rejection of the Messiah.

The Israel had four basic sabbatical cycles, weekly, yearly seven and fifty yearly. The release of debts [money owed] was at the the seven and the fifty. A yearly rest following both these Shabbat cycles which were indicative of the Messiahs Kingdom and rest for all nations. Men worked six days and rested on the seventh the seventh is the Shabbat of they Lord thy God. One must refrain from His own work and enter the rest of Y'hweh.

When Israel did not do that, it is written of them "I swear in my wrath [against them] they will not enter my rest i.e. eternal life. The Shabbat concept takes us back to the garden of Eden when Adam did his own work and was cursed not continuing in everlasting life thus not entering the the Lord's rest. All Shabbat cycle in old Israel were indicative of the coming Messiah hence the passage, "I AM Lord of the Shabbat" and "Shabbat was made for man not man for Shabbat".

The second phrase "as we remit our debtors" implies this simple truth. Literally if they remit money debt owed [money] Remit! the debt we (Israel) to you. Israel under the Law of Moses had departed the correct use of the Torah,thus reducing it to a set of moral dos and dont's. The Torah was fulfilled by faith as Paul states "does faith make the Law void, preposterous yeah we establish the Law"

The leaven of the Pharisees, that Jesus (Yeshua) speaks of, is their fleshy attempts to establish the Law through works void of faith . None could be saved by law keeping as the law works wrath and death and it is written, "the just shall live by faith" and again "by the deeds of the Torah (Law) no flesh is justified" But the Pharisees would strain a gnat and swallow a whole camel and miss the weightier matters of the Torah (Law) i.e. faith in fulfilling the Laws requirements as it is written "without faith it is impossible of please HIM. The aquittal of debts at Sabbatical release owed by others was seen as amoral obligation and so legalism ensured. But thier debt to Y'hweh they did not see hence the imperitive injunction.

The verb, "remit" in ther secdon phrase is "aphiemen = indicative mood present tense" and the "debts" are "opheiletais" the noun masculine; dative case; plural implying the bond of the dative of relationship. It was a natural moral obligation, but the more weightier matter was their debt to the Father as the one who called them. Hence Yehsua's imperative insistence.

The question posed about "conditional forgiving or aquittal" is not posed to the Gentiles but to Israel because of the Covenant of the Law. The Gentile nations recvied no Torah and a subsequently acquitted by the Passover of Yeshua as it is written "you who were afar off and now brought near by the blood of Messiah" The word blood here is the idiom for "Passover Blood". Sins, as we are prone to call them, are Passed over that the ministry of reconciliation might commence. Ye are buried with Christ and raised with Him in newness of life. Ye are aquitted.

Do we acquit others? As we are acquitted so ye acquit. Is this conditional? NO! It is logical in the Spirit. What if we fault? We are still acquitted. But not realising our aquittal [forgiveness] in the Christ we can sometimes be a child of light stumbling in the darkness. Understanding the Passover of Yehoshua suggests we simply "Passover" those who cause pain of our lives.Our hope is an heavenly hope, not earthy. So let us move on and make place for wrath (Divine wrath) for vengeance is mine says the Lord I will repay. Know where in ye are called and walk in the light as He is in the light.

regards to all